http://www.wcg.org/lit/images/wt/tharlot.jpgThe Group of Eight (G8), formerly G7 until Russia joined, is an international forum for the governments of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States. Together, these countries represent about 65% of the world economy. The group's activities include year-round conferences and policy research, culminating with an annual summit meeting attended by the heads of government of the member states. The European Commission is also represented at the meetings. ~ wikipedia
Revelation 17:
8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
9"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
There are two ways to interpret biblical sentences: literal or symbolic. Obviously, this is a symbolic passage (as is much of Revelation, for these are visions). There is also the problem of where in history we think the passage belongs: past or future.
There are two ways to interpret biblical sentences: literal or symbolic. Obviously, this is a symbolic passage (as is much of Revelation, for these are visions). There is also the problem of where in history we think the passage belongs: past or future.
If we are viewing the past, these verses fairly obviously refer to Rome, which was also prophesied by Daniel. But it is also possible to have a future application, meaning that the figures of the harlot, the beast, the ten kings, and the dragon represent a future world empire, one that is possibly and presently emerging right now with the advance of globalism.
Nothing represents this growing global empire more succinctly than the G8 (which just a few years ago was the G7). The eighth participant in this elite entourage was Russia. At today's G8 summit, George Bush took on Putin (President of Europe) in a clash over nuclear missile systems. Putin recently called the world a "powder keg." He was worried about American plans to set up a defense missile-system along the boundaries of Europe, to guard against Iran and North Korea, not Russia. But Russia, unaware of the intent of the system, took it personal. Putin announced he had a new ICBM, multiple-warhead missile that beats anything anywhere.
I am not suggesting that Russia is "the beast." One of the things about Revelation is that it lends itself to fitting scenarios for almost any interpretation you can think of, past or future.
However, it would seem strange to me if the Bible was prophetically silent about the times of Jesus' return. It most certainly is not. So we simply consider these things, and wonder. Are we in those days?
7 comments:
Very good Alan,
It does appear to me and my spirit that things are shaping up for a great change. We have been in relative peace for a generation. yes there have been many regional wars but so far, except for the war in Babylon, we have had peace. That is soon tyo end like a milstone being tossed into the sea. I wouldn't look for a raptured Church but I would look for a raptured group of Christians doing Jesus signs and wonders. Test it.
There is a lot of expectation in some sectors for that sort of thing to happen: and there is a certain scriptural logic for it as you know. But I might also suggest that it will not come the way we have expected or through the means we have been taught it will.
I've come to think of signs and wonders as rare in most times, though not apparently at the beginning. Catholics require signs and wonders for saint-induction.
If God begins to step up the program that way, it will not be this stuff we have going right now.
And it may not be much like Wigglesworth either. Apparently, it is a move of grace that causes unbelievers to take notice. Paul needed the signs to follow to establish his peculiar ministry as a writer of scripture. He was being verified before the people.
The message of grace through faith now does not need verification. It just is. When one believes one receives the Holy Spirit. That's all the verification anyone needs.
Faith does not rest in the miraculous, that is like a side effect of faith. Faith is still good even in a miracle-vacuum.
By and large, God does not upset his cosmic laws by changing up things. I don't think it has to do with me pumping up faith, or hyping up miracles, or becoming oh-so-holy. For all the years we did all that activity, we saw precious little, really.
Jesus was, after all, totally unique. So if I never do what he did, I won't be disappointed. What matters more is that I love God and my neighbor, as my senile old Dad always says. It boils down to that. I want love more than miracles.
Based on your analogy only part of scripture is true. The reason we don't see it is we don't believe it. Un-belief is the opposite of faith. Is it not? Jesus wants us to be complete in Him, Right. We have part of the package but not all. I believed this before I ever heard of Brother Terrell, my friend. If I remember right so did you. Maybe we had the implementation wrong but you can't make excuses for what is plainly in the written scrip. I don’t put my confidence in the written word as many evangelicals do but it is there none the less. Jesus went about doing good healing all that were oppressed of the devil curing their deceases. Why would he do it just for that generation? He said you will do this and more. Right! Here is my point, If we are the end time generation, would it not make God sense to have a people who will go about "doing the works of Jesus" to repair this battered world. Isn't that bringing Christ to the nations? Not in word only but in power also to make it complete? Instead we have a bunch of doctrines that say the very cur for this world is going to pop out of here and leave this World to devil? I think Grace is with works as Faith without works is dead. There are things out there now that doctors don't have a clue about. People are getting cancer and all manner of diseases at an alarming rate now. Even with all our modern medicine and the wonders of science. The World needs Jesus in His church to put up or just be another dead religion. Brother most of what I see is dead religion in Christianity today. The Good news is 'not all have bowed to Baal". There will be a wheel in the wheel that is in the presence of the Lord. Who love not their life unto death? Telling people that all they have to do is believe in Jesus is good. Then let’s believe in him. He is Lord and Savior and that is a whole lot more than modern day Christianity. I am sorry if I sound like I am judging the Church. I don't believe I am . I am just expecting a tidal wave from God as promissed in the written word and the present day spoken word to me.
"only part of scripture is true."
Not sure what you mean here. I believe we have the correct canon for a number of reasons. I believe that not only the writers were inspired but the ones who finalized the canon did a bang-on job, as Clive would say. We are privileged to have the inspired Word. I just recently reread the NT.
The concept of "divine dictation", though, may overdo it. I understand that holy men of old spoke as they were moved. But you can find zillions of statements in the Bible, taken alone, that mean nothing. Like, so-and-so begat for instance. Yet, we have this unique literature that the Spirit speaks through. In toto, it is the inspired word. I could go on, but not here.
"Un-belief is the opposite of faith. Is it not?"
Technically, yes. But, if you look closely at, like, Hebrews, the writer (Barnabas?)is adressing Jews about faith in Christ. He keeps using the word "confidence."
In my Pentecostalism, I learned a kind of concept of faith that was manipulative. But faith is really confidence. And it is a specific confidence in one Person. It isn't related to how anything goes in life, who dies, who gets healed, who gets rich. We don't control those things and we don't control God.
But if we lay hands on someone, for instance, our faith and their faith, essentially the same, is capable of bringing about a miraculous result. And even if it doesn't, it is still the same faith.
"We have part of the package but not all. I believed this before I ever heard of Brother Terrell, my friend. If I remember right so did you. "
As I recall, we were both developing in our faith and were out on a sea with a plank to hold onto. I did not have enough experience to know what God would or wouldn't do. But I will say I was immature. For one thing, I lacked discernment. Remember how we prayed for wisdom? Comes hard, don't it?
"Jesus went about doing good healing all that were oppressed of the devil curing their deceases. Why would he do it just for that generation? "
My initial encounter with him was a miracle, to me. But I didn't yet know him. I had only met him. I knew he was real. But I knew nothing else, so I got hungry.
If my first encounter was a miracle, I could then assume that that was God's emphasis and that he wanted to do it all the time. And if he didn't it was our fault.
We didn't have enough faith. But I no longer think it is about quantity of faith or even quality.
Faith is faith. It isn't about finding some formula or working up a frothy faith. It's the same-old mustard seed. It has unlimited potential. But it's not big-faith vs. little-faith. I don't doubt God can do anything. But in all those years of faith-healing meetings, 3 decades worth, I saw precious little. It seems to me now that the average Pentecostal is frustrated, grasping at straws.
What if it's a waste of time? Healing get-togethers. I think Jesus would say, "What are you all doing?"
Maybe Jesus' reference to "little faith" was about the Jews not believing in him.
"He said you will do this and more."
But most Christians don't. So I would assume he could have meant "more" in the sense of bigger. Today the miraculous is happening all the time in the huge fields of the world. The masses being reached now are far larger than in the Acts days. And what about casting out demons? I've seen people change the minute they believed. Just coming to faith alone releases power. It isn't a Pentecostal thing, for instance.
"If we are the end time generation, would it not make God sense to have a people who will go about "doing the works of Jesus" to repair this battered world."
Yes, it does make sense. But I don't know if it's for repair so much. When Jesus got up a bunch of other people got up. But they must have gone on and died again later.
The final visitation you speak of would be a big smooch from God, to say to unbelieving people, "I love you. See what I can do? Why won't you receive my gift, my Son? Do you know what I am offering you?"
Miracles did not stop the Pharaoh from pursuing the slaves. He was not impressed. I think I'm saying that it is neat; but it isn't the heart of our message.
"Brother most of what I see is dead religion in Christianity today."
I used to see that, too. But what did I mean by "dead?" And who am I to judge what's dead? To a snake handler, you and I are dead. We just don't have big faith. But there are a lot of dead snake handlers. And my faith has kept me alive.
What I mean is that there is more in the bible than "Having Faith" God said through His prophet’s witten through a book. What he said was written down but it was the spoken word that had power. This is me now. If God speaks to you say about a move of God or even a simple thing in your life, you have "a Word from God" Then you might write it down to remember, Right? Faith comes by hearing it. Then you break it down to the kind of word it might be. One that needs action on your part to activate it or maybe it’s a Word of Command that needs nothing to activate it.
By the way speaking of the dead churches this might be a good thing. It takes dead wood to make a good fire. Dry Bones became a mighty Army. So shall it be in the Day of restitution of all things. I honestly believe that somehow someway God by His Holy Child Jesus Christ will rise up His Church to be the Light of the World. The Church of the Living God will fix this world by Christ. I am not sure how it will be done but I don’t believe that he will take us out of this world and then let 144000 Jews do it. When the Jews come to Zion rejoicing and we the gentile church is joined to the Jesus Jews all heaven is going to break out. Darkness is first then the Morning. The 7th day began in darkness didn’t it? The evening and the morning.
Now you are in the prophetic, and yes that is the "spoken word" and also the "voice of God." I do recognize it. Very familiar, you might say.
I like the metaphor about dead wood. How apt! I'm considering that the modern version of Christianity is now dead wood. It will explode into a new enlightenment. When the church comes into love, she will be very lovely to God.
Yes, there is more in the Bible than faith. But faith is the groundwork. You can't even begin to understand the word without faith. And you can't survive death and the judgment without it.
"Spoken word" is just another phrase meaning "prophetic." And prophetic is way more common than many Christians realize. I hear it all the time in some of the unlikeliest places.
Great comments, dude.
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